From: "george tsapanos" <>
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 11:10:18 -0700
Lines: 237
Message-ID: <>

Good morning to all.
Before I take off for few more days of deer hunting, let me give you something to read and  think about it .

Is the story of the Vlachian question, part of the Makedonian question, part of the Eastern question.  All of these questions are connected, the oldest being the Vlachian question , with the Makedonian next and the Eastern last. The Vlachian Question begins back in the days when the mountainous populations of the Greek mountains, started working for the Roman Army, moving with it to the rest of Europe, and establishing themselves in the rest of Europe, bringing with them, their new language, but keeping the love for everything Hellenic intact.

The Makedonian Question starts  ( for many) with the involment of Russia in the western affairs, and their attempt to replace the  ""ill man"" that was the Ottoman Empire.

It is Lyngos  position, that the actual Makedonian Question, began many years ago, and exactly, at the times, when FOTIOS and  the two brother collaborators, decided to attact the Latin Church of  Justinian's First Illyricum and replace it's language with the SLAV one. Those people back those days they could have done it much better if the chosen language was the Greek one, but in that case Fotios could not  have been the God-father of  ""all "" of those Slav masses.

Grandeur has it's price I guess !!

So , back then, the division of the people began, a division that  almost thousand years later,officially took the name ""Makedonian"" . This new Question begins , after the Crimean war, and the decision of Russia to change or better  shift the sphere of it's influence toward the west. It was the  ""Re-stirring""  of old  local problems,  this time again under the same old Religious  excuses, of a different Church,  to serve the people better, ( but in reality  to divide,  if not conquer the Makedonian land). The third Question was the Eastern, that began in those days between the reigning of K (C)UZA in Romania, and the treaties of San Stefano, that of Berlin,  and the  beginning of  the new face of the Makedonian Question after the establishment of the Exarchate.

All three are extremely important, because all three were connected with Makedonia, and it's people .

AHA !!  IT'S PEOPLE !!!!!

Our people --as Lyngos posted at his "Greek club or Kazino" posting of his-- began as early as 1850, to organize themselves against the imperialistic designs of the Pan-Slavism.

All the early organizations by the Vlachs to include Makedonia into the Hellenic Kingdom, were financed by private contributions.

It was the time when the young state of Hellas could NOT afford to fight wars for afar lands, even if on those lands the Hellenic element was  in superior numbers of that Slav one, even if the Patriarchates were in greater numbers of the Exarchates.

In 1870 we have the recognition of a new Bulgarian Church, by the Ottomans, in March of 1978 the San Stefano treaty, and in  the same year the Berlin treaty.

The Bulgars by the first two events, found themselves  to be the Masters of an Empire, an Ecclisiastical, and a Political  one.

But then..........within 6 months period of time,  they were back to rags again. The idea and dream og Greater Bulgaria, became a tiny little piece of land, surrounded  by the same states that  few months ago were their subjects !!

But the Bulgars are not the only loosers of the Berlin treaty.

The Romanians are losing Bessarabia, an area of 18,000 square miles, to the Russians. It was part of the old Romanian grounds, taken away by the Austrian-Hungarians, and now given to the Russians !!

So the nationalistic feelings of the Romanians were turned towards those lost lands, but they could  do absolutely nothing.

So ...............they turned their  ATTENTION, to other BROTHERS living in captivity.

Other brothers that were just speaking ONLY IN PART, a similar  Roman language, a language that was given to them , to begin with, by those same people !!!

So the Romanians, went  after the liberation of the VLACHS !!

But after the liberation  of the VLACHS, were the Bulgars too!!!

And the Austrians of course,  that for centuries were dreaming an opening to the Aegean sea.

And the French missionaries, of the Catholic Church !!

And the Russians too !!!

All of a sudden EVERYBODY, EVERYBODY EXCEPT MOTHER HELLAS, were after the liberation of the Vlachs, inhabitants of the Makedonian land !!

And the VLACHS ?


You see..............Mother Greece those days had to be NICE, VERY nice to the Ottoman Dogs, and the Allies. After all they gave us a new state, let's keep them happy, and the HELL with Makedonia and it's people, the Vlachs.

But the Vlachs ------Super-hard-headed-people------wouldn't stop the fighting against all those intruding night-crawlers, and hour by the hour, few real Hellenes woke-up from the centuries old sleep of theirs, and finally they realize the high stakes for Hellenism.

And suddenly, still unofficially we have a score of private organizations, collecting money,arms and supplies for what by now had become the Makedonian struggle.

A struggle between Hellenes Vlachs, Bulgars and Romanians, with the rest of the Great powers watching carefully for the leftovers of the meal. With the help from those private organizations, the  Vlachs start  having the upper hand, so much indeed that the Great powers are having second thoughts, about who's land that Makedonian land is after all !!

So .............they decide to have REFORMS.  To reform  everything !!! And so we have the MURSTERG  accord regarding those reforms.

The Bulgars are realizing that they are about to lose the game, so they organize  an assasination plot, against Ottoman soldiers.

But JUST IN CASE they were to fail, they organize this assasination attempt within, VLACHIAN land.

They chose the  three bigest  villages-cities of the Vlachian population, Krusovo,Nymfaion (Neveska) and Kleisoura.

They call it  the Ilin-den uprising !!


Krusovo, the farthest to the north Hellenic village, suffers  a full destruction. The victims were all VLACHS.

Victims by BOTH the Bulgars that first moved in to assasinate the Ottoman gendarmes, and the Ottomans, that came three days later to impose order. Krusovo had 3500 families of Vlachs, a 70 % of the population, with a 10% pro-Romanian vlachs, and a 20 % Schismatic Bulgars of the Exarchate. The Exarchists during the three days of assasinations took the Greek Gold, gold that was given to Bachmar Pasha, to spare the Bulgarian families and exterminate the Greek Vlachian ones,  to set the score even for the Ottomans.

The only GOOD thing about the Krusovo destruction, was the fact that FINALLY the Greek goverment, wakes-up.

Is going to become a different struggle from now on. Cretean fighters are moving into the Makedonian lands to return the favor done to them by the Vlachs years earlier into their fight against the Turks. Melas and other Greek officers are becoming part of the Makedonian fighters, plenty supplies, money and.......dreams !!

And the Romanians ?

The Romanians  had  design their propaganda around the fact that the Vlachs, speaking a similar language, were brothers with them, so they should be the ones ----with help by them of course----  that should express their feelings. In Romania in the mean time different organizations were formed, organizations that all of them were trying to atract the Vlachian-Brothers living under the Ottoman yolk, as far to the South as Larissa !!! Grand-Maestro of their attempts someone by the name Margaritis,  a Vlach most likely himself allright ----everybody has it's bad apples in the family, especially if plenty gold is given to help the ideology--- .

Their attempts were mainly  targeting the establishment of Romanian Schools and Churches.

It was a diavolic plan. Even .....if we can not win fighting, at least we can show to the Great powers that by the numbers of our Schools and Churches, a Vlachian minority, A Vlachian-Romanian  MINORITY DOES exist, and in such a way should be protected.

The game of the Romanians, was a double one.

IF the Pro-Romanian Vlachs were able to win any land under the Romanian flag, that was great, and in case they were not able to do it, at LEAST they would have a bargaining chip to play when the division of the Great Sick ----the Ottoman  Empire----   was going to be put on the table, for the winners to grab.

And  that day wasn't too far away. In 1912  the Greek  and Serbian army are victorious against the Ottomans, in Makedonia. The Bulgars are the biggest losers, while the Romanians, are still waiting.......................

Monastiri, the capital of the Vlachs, is taken by the allies Serbs, and the maggiority of it's population not wanting to have anything to do with the Serbs, start moving to the south toward Florina, and Thessaloniki. We left behind us few brothers, to prepare the ground for our return. And we left behind us everything else.

The Vlachs, the GREEK VLACHS, had to move one more time away from the land for which they had fought the most, for that Makedonian land that was given to mother Greece, after years of  private fighting, against the Pan-Slavism, against the Ottomans, against the Great powers.

Super-hard-headed people those Vlachs,  I told you so !!

But the troubles are not over even in the new lands.

 The 16th of June 1913, the second Balkan war begins. Greeks and Serbs are signing the accord against the Bulgars, BUT they  WE need the HELP OF ROMANIA and it's trust !!!

You see....the Austro-Hungarians were sided with Bulgaria, so ...........our Ambassator in Bukurest on the 15th of May 1913,  is anouncing that in EXCHANGE for  their allineation,  the USE of their language and the full freedom of their schools and churches  is permitted.

""Theirs"" of course are the  VLACHS with a Romanian coscience.

This was the game of the Romanians, a game well played. A game that was destinate to be lost from his ideation day, but a game that nevertheless, cause deep divisions and mistrust among the Hellenes.

We are now in 1917, and we have NEW combination of SAVORS for the lachs  ---- they must really like us a lot ------ !!!!

After the earlier attempt by Italy  to establish an Italian State in the Balkans, with  maggiority of it's population the Vlachs of the Pindus mountains ( you see the Roman language was the excuse one more time) and new ones that they should be moved from other places ( speaking of course  the Roman language ), the Greek representation in Paris is asking for the withdraw of the Italian army from the Hellenic lands, Italian army that moved south of the Albanian borders during the first world war.

On August the 4th 1917, the Rumanian prime minister Braziano, was planning together with the Italians, to build in Makedonia a new Italo-Rumanian State with main population the VLACHS !!

Everybody were planning to build their new countries based upon the Vlachs, and NOBODY was asking them !!!

And the Vlachian Question,   is changing protagonists during the years of the Occupation by  the Germans and the Italians during second world war.. We have a new Margaritis, his name Alkiviadis Diamantis.

With backing from the Italians and the Germans, he is asking that the local leaders  of the Vlachian villages of Epirus,Thessaly, Makedonia, and  the Pindus mountains, must be placed and approved into their offices by him . He becomes the self appointed leader of the  Italo-Rumanian  State of the Vlachs in the Balkans, continuing in such a way  in the steps of the trasitors of the ""Roman Legion"".

Fortunately  for us those days another Vlach knowing the realities of the vlachian question was around. His name E. Averof -Tositsas, future minister in the goverments by Karamanlis.

He is exposing Diamantis, and he is paying for that with detention in the Italian jails.

And this more or less is the end of the modern Vlachian Question.

A Question that really didn't pay too mush to the ones that thought designed and execute it.

The reason being that the Vlachs, always considered themselves of prime Hellenic stock and they fought for the continuation of their traditions and beliefs.

The biggest and worse probably  evil  it was the overall idea regarding the Vlachs, that was painted in the minds of the Neo-Hellenes, or of those Palaio-Hellenes of DOUBIOUS pasts.

But then, easy , temporary, sloppy, judgments go hand to hand with  most of us.

That is , till.............we discover the truth, and then the injustice take the back seat. And this is the case with the legend of the Vlachs and the Vlachian Question.

I am talking about The HELLENIC VLACHS, not to be confused with the Rumanians, the Bulgarians, the Istrians, the Moggolians, the Slav ones. I hope that my posting contributed a little bit, in the understanding of the people and their problems during the latest years, that for eons are fighting for the conservation of  Hellenism.

Regards to all ..................L.

From: (Kastellion)
Lines: 37
Date: 13 Oct 1998 18:48:45 GMT
Message-ID: <>

What exactly the nationality of Vlachs is, historically speaking, is an open question. The ones living in Greece consider themselves Greeks, and no one is going to object to what they believe for themselves. Among them one can count the national benefactors Averof and Tositsas.

In the beginning of this century there was a controversy of what the nationality of the Vlachs really was. Since the Vlachs used a Latin oriented language it was claimed that they were of Romanian nationality (that is, the nationality of the people living in Romania).

A Greek historian, N. Kazazes, early this century, wrote that a Romanian politician once said

The Romanian people had desires on the beautiful Transylvania, where so many Romanians were living. But this was impossible because our relations with the AustroHungarian empire would have been jeopardised. So the non-existent subject of the Romanians in Macedonia was invented.

(Source: "The Macedonian Problem" by N. Kazazes, 1907 ,page 105).

The "Romanian Vlachs" question was invented mainly by Gustav Weigand. According to him the Vlachs were considered Romanians (and not, say, Romans, of the Roman empire) because the Vlachs were using a greco-latin dialect.

Other historians of that time, such as Momsen, Krumwacher (sp?), and Korting dismissed such claims. Edward Stanford wrote in 1877 that Greek-Vlachs were to Greeks what Welsh were to English.

No matter how you call them (the Greek Vlachs) be it Romans or Romanians or Vlachs they call themselves Greeks.

An additional reason for the "romanisation" of the Vlachs was the desire of the Romanians to use them in their negotiations with the Bulgars related to the future of the area of Dobrucha. The Romanians would have favored the idea to 'transfer' their claims on the Vlachs to Bulgaria in exchange for Bulgars granting them rights on that region. This was mentioned by a Romanian Prince, Brancovan, in a book of his.

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